Daniel S. writes at The Thinking Housewife, commenting on my post Ethnic Holes:
Alex replies:Ms. Asrat wrote:Not having been to Toronto I can speak to this particular situation, but thought I should mention that while maybe the Toronto-based Koreans have little interest in aesthetics, not so their ethnic brethren still in their native land. I am currently living in Seoul and must say that many neighborhoods here in the more affluent areas display quite pleasant architecture and landscaping. Furthermore, most of modern urbanity in the West is often ghastly or banal. I say this not to defend immigration, which I don’t, but it seems odd to single out Asians when one could produce numerous equally dull and inferior shop fronts run by Anglo-Americans.
Even those areas where reasonably well-to-do (these days they are “Asians” – i.e. Chinese, Koreans and Filipinos, and the South Asians – i.e. Indians and Pakistani) immigrants reside, we find generally inferior homes, with no landscaping or maintenance of the surroundings. Dull and lusterless places.
Alex, in true "tourist" fashion talks about a select area, where he is privileged to stay. "Affluent region" says it all. I have also traveled to Korea, and stayed with an affluent Korean family for two weeks, the family of a Korean university friend. Through luck and circumstance, I have known elite segments of various other cultures. Staying with my friend, I was struck at the gaucheness of their elite lifestyle. One evening, the mother of the household planned an elaborate meal for us (visitors). The food was abundant, and took up a long stretch on a low table of rosewood. There were no "courses" and everything was on the table at once. We sat on the ground on cushions. We all had small bowls of rice and a pair of chopsticks. The method to the meal was to stretch to the various dishes along the table and scoop out a portion with the chopsticks, and transport it to our bowls. There was no re-shuffling of dishes, and I kept to my side. Others stretched out a little more.Daniel S. writes:People capable of creating affluent neighborhoods with pleasant architecture and landscaping for themselves in their own countries, stay in their own countries. They have no reason to emigrate. It’s people who are incapable of this that we get as immigrants.
I am currently living in Seoul and must say that many neighborhoods here in the more affluent areas display quite pleasant architecture and landscaping.
The main attraction of the evening was the food. The table, although a lovely reddish color, was mostly hidden by all the dishes. The seating arrangements were invisible; we were sitting on cushions. I don't even remember what they looked like. There was no "center piece" or other decorative arrangements on the table. The bowls and dishes carrying the food were mostly undecorated. I think they were a shiny, lacquered black. A few may have had designs on them. Again, they did not stand out enough for me to remember that.
Here is a short piece of eating etiquette at a Korean meal:
There are rules which reflect the decorum of sharing communal side dishes; rules include not picking through the dishes for certain items while leaving others, and the spoon used should be clean, because usually diners put their spoons in the same serving bowl on the table.
A Korean meal: Low table and sitting on the floor,
and communal dishes for reaching out with chopsticks
Hanjeongsik, a formal traditional Korean table, similar to the one
I was invited to during my stay in Korea.
We all sat on cushions on the floor. This was a little difficult for me since I actually
wore a formal dress, with a narrow skirt. But I managed somehow.
Now, imagine a formal French table or a formal American one.
A formal American holiday dinner table
A formal (probably elite) French dinner table
Such societies have evolved superior forms of food culture. Food is not presented in one stretch of a meal, but in carefully structured segments, or courses. This way, each independent segment can be enjoyed without the palette being overwhelmed. And the aperetif opens up the appetite, while the digestif helps with the food's digestion, as do salad and fruit. The dessert clears the palette from other heavy tastes and spices of the previous courses. And coffee makes sense. After a heavy meal, it perks one up a little. So, besides the aesthetic and culinary aspects, these meals have also evolved health considerations.
Besides the food, the decor surrounding the meal is very important, from the chairs, the table cloth, the dinnerware design, and the floral and other decorative arrangements.
Formal French and American meals include the following:
The French meal:
L'AperetifL'Hors D’oeuvresAnd a formal American meal divides its courses into:
L'Entrée
Le Plat Principal
Le Salade
Le Fromage
Le Dessert
Le Cafe
Le Digestif
An appetizer
Soup
Fish
Game
Salad
Dessert
Fruit and Cheese
Coffee
A Korean meal:So, this is the competition. If Asians can compete with this, and give us something superior, then I will reconsider my previous arguments.
Spicy pickled garlic
Pickled oysters
Spicy pickled codfish gills
Burdock roots in red pepper sauce
Mung bean jelly with beef and vegetables
Shrimp with scallions
Wild sesame, rice, and root porridge
Water radish kimchi
Squid and fish pancakes
Sauteed mushrooms with carrots and squash
Spicy octopus and onions
Fish roe stew
Crepes with nine delicacies
Braised short ribs
Cold beef, Bamboo shoots, and vegetables in a persimmon dressing
Shrimp stew
Pickled cap mushrooms
Doenjang or soybean paste stewS
Shrimp and jellyfish salad in a mustard dressing
Sautéed fiddleheads
Bellflower roots, and crown daisies
Beef glazed with soy sauce
Pickled onions
Kimchi,
Pickled maesil plums
Clam-seaweed
And rice, of course. [Source]
I have not seen anything to change my mind.
As I wrote in my previous post, the contemporary immigrants who leave their countries are often of a mediocre type. Still, even the elite of Korea cannot compete with the elite of the West, so whichever "type" of Korean immigrant comes to the West, we will be dealing with an overall inferior culture.
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Posted By: Kidist P. Asrat
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